Rivendell Research -Maxed Out Builds-

Hello, it’s Tani from Blue Lug Kamiuma.

I’m doing a little research about Rivendell Bicycle Works. Hope some of you get a kick out of it.

Did you watch the video? Sabu the YouTube director dragged me out to make this video.

I’m always nervous during the recording, so there’s always things that I forgot to mention or things I want to rephrase. To conclude that video, I wanted to say that a bike could become more comfortable, depending on the measurements and angles of the parts. There’s multiple ways and theories for this so it’s a pain, but if you’re interested in Rivendell fitting, come talk to me.

This is Sabu’s Platypus we tweaked in the video. I think it has a sexiness to it now.

I believe that bikes look more beautiful when building them with consideration of the rider, in stead of building them for the sake of building it nicely.

I always imagine a meatball.

Your palm is the rider and the meatball is the bike. When you squeeze the meatball with your palm, the meatball will deform into a shape of your palm. This shape after squeezing is the “comfy and beautiful ride position”.

If meatball is too weird, clay works too.

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I’ve wrote and talked about how to choose frame size for Rivendell bikes (with the proper comfy fitting) dozens of times, but today I’m going to be writing about choosing a larger frame sizes.

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Let’s go over some basics. For Rivendell bikes, we would often depend on PBH (pubic bone height) instead of how tall you are.

We would measure the distance from the ground to our pubic bone, like in the video above.

Then, look at the Rec. PBH Range and you can instantly know what size we could ride. It’s good to keep a note or memorize your PBH.
・・・・・・・・

However, some of you may consider big frames look better or you just simply like bigger bikes.

I can relate to that. I once bought a 54.5 A. Homer Hilsen and realized it was too big. I ended up buying a 51.

This is the bike I bought. I only rode it for a couple months since the handlebar was too far and my crotch would get pushed on the top tube since my legs weren’t long enough, which caused me so much stress that I let it go.

Ever since, I decided to become the PBH police because I didn’t want our customers or my colleges to make the same mistakes.

・・・・・・

Okay, I may have been a little bit overdramatic. PBH is just a method and not the goal.

Basically, when choosing a frame size based on rec. PBH range, you will be

① able to follow the stand over height

②able to get a correct saddle height

③able to set the handlebar in a comfortable position.

The goal is to complete the three bullet points to build a comfy bike.

By clearing the tree bullet points above, the bike will feel much better to get on off, roll smoothly with small amount of force and make the bike look better.

<Three Bullet Points Recap>

①Standover : The standover height must be shorter than your PBH. If you mess this up, you will hurt your crotch when jumping off. This is also connected to the stress of straddling the bike because you use more energy when you’re trying to straddling the bike.

②Correct saddle height : The saddle must be placed where it is the easiest for your to straddle the bike and easy to pedal when you’re on the saddle, based on the length of legs. If the saddle is not in the correct height, the power of advancing becomes weak, makes it tough to climb a hill and can damage your knee and back.

③A comfortable handlebar placement : Like the saddle height, the handlebar must be positioned correctly. If the grip is too close or too far, your bike will be come uncomfortable to ride.

You need to follow the rec. PBH range to clear all three bullet points.

・・・・・・・

When asked why should we follow the rec. PBH range, I would often say “the bike looks better when you look at it from the side”, or “the amount of the projection seat post blah blah blah”, but those are actually not really that important. The most important thing is making the bike comfortable.

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Okay, now on to the main topic.

We’re now going to exploit the theory above.

You may be thinking “Could I ride a bigger frame if I can follow the bullet points?”

The terms “Step-thru” and “Step-over” are the keywords to the answer of that question.

For example, Grant-san with 85cm PBH rides a 54 Appaloosa,

while also riding a 60 Cheviot. The key is that he is following the three bullet points.

You are able to skip the first bullet point, Standover with a step-thru frame, meaning that you may have a better chance of choosing a larger frame size.

・・・

I’ll go ahead and be the test subject here. I am 173cm/5’8 tall with a PBH of 83cm. My saddle height is 70cm.

My 51 Appaloosa.

I am not able to ride a 54 Appaloosa,

but I am able to ride a 55 Platypus.

I put the both bikes in the same exact saddle height and grip placement.

51 and 55, that is a 4cm difference, but I am able to set my saddle to 70cm and follow all three bullet points. And of course, both bikes are very comfortable.

In short, you are able to choose a big frame size that we dreamed of with the step-thru frames, such as the Platypus, Clem, Charlie and more.

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This is also highly effective for people who have short PBH relative to their height. When a tall person with short legs choose a traditional diamond frame based on the rec. PBH range, they are able to ride comfortably, but would have to have a 130mm stem, or may not be able to use the Bosco Bar depending on the model of the frame, since the grip gets too close.

However, with a step-thru frame, they can follow the three bullet points, make the bike look beautiful and have more options for handlebars. If you are a short legged rider, try considering getting a step-thru frame.

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Now here’s where it gets interesting.

I was able to size up my Platypus to 55 due to the difference of the size options between diamond frames and step-thru frames. Would you think I could go even bigger and ride the 60?

The answer is no.

This is because I cannot lower the saddle under 72cm even if I slam the seat post. My saddle height being 70cm, I cannot ride size 60 Platypus.

・・・

Let’s dive in deeper.

I found the following calculation by slamming the seat post.

frame size+12cm=the minimum saddle height of the frame

(Let’s say that I have a Brooks saddle) For a 60 Platypus, the minimum saddle height is 72cm. (60+12)

So if I calculate back, 70(my saddle height) – 12=58 → I now know I can set my saddle height properly, with a frame size up to 58.

Hold up, I can ride a size 58? The demon whispers in my ears. Of course, it is impossible to ride a diamond frame since it goes against the first bullet point of the three, “standover”.

Now let’s add the only for step-thru frame theory into the mix.

…but it looks like Grant-san had already experimented this.

Grant’s 64cm Clem L – 85cm PBH

Seat post slammed, but still able to set the saddle height to his correct saddle height. (bullet point 2 check)

This is how far the seat post is slammed

Slam a short stem and use the Tosco Bar that has a big sweep. Distance between the rider and the grip, check. Comfy handlebar positioning, check. (bullet point 3 check)

And of course, the Clem is a step-thru frame, so straddling the bike is still easy and there are no problems in the standover. (all bullet points were kept)

I know this is confusing, since I was all like “I’m the PBH Police!!”.

Basically, it is a bike that is

Bikes that do not follow the rec. PBH range, despite fulfilling all the conditions for a comfortable bicycle as defined by the recommended PBH objectives.

It is a bike that kind of hacked the system of bike fitting. Let’s call this “maxed out sizing”.

・・・

“This is something only Grant can pull off” you might say? Well, some of our customers had already heard about this hack and had already let me build with maxed out sizing.

Charlie H.Gallop 61 / saddle height : 75cm PBH87cm

Clem Smith Jr. 59 / saddle height : 71cm PBH83cm

Both bikes are bigger than that of when choosing sizes based on their PBH, like we normally do. However, they follow all three bullet points.

Oh, you guys are nerds and you just love Grant-san so much huh? I had fun building both of these bikes.

How does the bike feel?

It feels like the frame flexes to smoothly absorb bumps in the road.

“When a bike is longer, it is more stable and comfortable, like a canoe or a surfboard.” I remember Grant-san saying something like that

“Why am I able to ride this huge bike comfortably?”
Says our bike photographer when he rode the Charlie out for a photo shoot.

He was so confused, so I said “Mwahaha, that is the magic of maxed out sizing.” in my mind and just smiled back to him.

This style, this short seat post style is only possible with step-thru frames and it looks beautiful.

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If you’re having a hard time sleeping, you might wanna try subtracting 12cm from your saddle height and look for a frame you can ride.

I just noticed that I can ride the 57 Charlie. I wanna build it and ride it…someone with 70cm saddle height…

join the cult…

put you hand on the altar…

(Thanks for reading such a long blog post)